Re: Class D Audio

Da roby2k il Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 14:47

Ciao Robfug,
In pratica hai preso il mio stesso modello, bene.
A mio avviso si tratta di un ottimo ampli. Potenza e dinamica a volontà senza rinunciare alla resa dei T amplificatori.
All'inizio denunciavo un pò di attenuazione delle alte frequenze, infatti volevo cambiare la resistenza in serie al tweeter e l'ho comprate pure, ma col tempo (credo si tratti di rodaggio) non si è reso più necessario, meglio così.
Ne sono molto soddisfatto. Se non fosse per la bassa impedenza d'ingresso scriverei di essere pienamente soddisfatto. Infatti consiglio vivamente, se pilotato con pre passivo, di utilizzare un potenziometro non superiore ai 10K.
Credo che questo ampli abbia una impedenza d'ingresso davvero bassa, rendendo quasi obbligatorio l'utilizzo di un pre o almneo di un buffer in modo da adattare le impedenze.
Ho chiesto più volte a Tom (il venditore) l'impedenza di ingresso di questo ampli, ma non mi ha ancora risposto. Proprio oggi ho chiesto anche su DiyAudio (in inglese maccheronico) vediamo che rispondono. Comunque credo che fra qualche giorno la misurerò con l'aiuto di un amico e vediamo un pò il da farsi.
Ad ogni modo, come dicevo, si raggiungono già ottimi risultati con pot da 10k, anzi, non escludo la possibilità di stare già al massimo ottenibile.

Da Robfug il Lun 16 Nov 2009 - 13:02

Grazie Roberto, quanto ci ha messo il tuo pacco ad arrivare. Lo hai preso direttamente dal loro sito?

A presto.

Rob.

Da roby2k il Lun 16 Nov 2009 - 14:23

@Robfug ha scritto:Grazie Roberto, quanto ci ha messo il tuo pacco ad arrivare. Lo hai preso direttamente dal loro sito?

A presto.

Rob.

Da ebay, dove iresci a ottenere un prezzo migliore.
Se ricordo bene 2 settimane.

Ciao.

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 6:54

Greetings from California!
I have been reading this forum (with Google Translate) for several weeks now. This is a great forum. When it comes to Class D / T you guys are hardcore! So many great mods!

Anyway, I just want to say that I also have a Class D audio amp (2X250w 4 ohms) and I absolutely love it. Yes, there was a touch of magic to my modified Sure 2X100 TK2050 (what a great amp) but the Class D audio amp is so seductive, robust, and involving. Like going from Kate Beckinsale to Catherine Zeta-Jones! I do not think I will want to try another amp for a while. ( ': soinlove:')
But the reason I am writing today is to say how important it is to use a good cast for this amp. I believe this amp is VERY sensitive and transparent to different components. I used a very cheap glass fuse and fuse holder in the beginning while testing. Then I replaced them with ceramic Acme cryo silver plated and silver plated fuse holder. Very cheap, only $ 20 for both. The difference was astounding in music right away. I have heard changes from fuses before but this was night and day difference. However, I also switched my AC power cord to OCC copper at the same time so this may have helped, but I do not think so. Power cords take longer to change the sound and are more subtle.

So I recommend to everyone to test out different fuses with this amp. You will not be disappointed! : Oki:

Da bonghittu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 7:41

Hi Wushuliu!

Have you test it with other t-class amps?

see ya, Bongh

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 8:50

[quote = "bonghittu"] Hi Wushuliu!

Have you test it with other t-class amps?

see ya, Bong [/ quote]

Hi Bonghittu,

Do you mean the fuses? No, I did not use any fuses with the Sure TK2050 (I used a laptop power supply for that). I did upgrade the fuses on my old Class AB Audiosource Amp 3, and it made a big difference there as well.

Da bonghittu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:01

Hi, Wushuliu

I'm interested about ClassDAudio board performance
in relation to other tripath chipset based amps like Sure 2024,
Kingrex T20, Trends TA10 and so on (quality aspects like soundscape,
micro-dynamics etc....).

B.

Da roby2k il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:16

@Wushuliu ha scritto:Greetings from California!
I have been reading this forum (with Google Translate) for several weeks now. This is a great forum. When it comes to Class D / T you guys are hardcore! So many great mods!

Anyway, I just want to say that I also have a Class D audio amp (2X250w 4 ohms) and I absolutely love it. Yes, there was a touch of magic to my modified Sure 2X100 TK2050 (what a great amp) but the Class D audio amp is so seductive, robust, and involving. Like going from Kate Beckinsale to Catherine Zeta-Jones! I do not think I will want to try another amp for a while. ( ': soinlove:')
But the reason I am writing today is to say how important it is to use a good cast for this amp. I believe this amp is VERY sensitive and transparent to different components. I used a very cheap glass fuse and fuse holder in the beginning while testing. Then I replaced them with ceramic Acme cryo silver plated and silver plated fuse holder. Very cheap, only $ 20 for both. The difference was astounding in music right away. I have heard changes from fuses before but this was night and day difference. However, I also switched my AC power cord to OCC copper at the same time so this may have helped, but I do not think so. Power cords take longer to change the sound and are more subtle.

So I recommend to everyone to test out different fuses with this amp. You will not be disappointed! : Oki:

Welcome Wushuliu,
Tahnk you very much for your experience.
I will try different fuses as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Roberto.

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:39

@bonghittu ha scritto: Hi, Wushuliu

I'm interested about performance ClassDAudio board
in relation to other Sure Tripath chip based amps like 2024,
KingRex T20, Trends TA10 and so on (quality aspects like soundscape,
micro-dynamics, etc. ....).

B.

The only Class T I have built/heard is the modified Sure TK2050. All my speakers have lower efficiency, so I avoid the TA2020/24 based amps (I do have an unfinished 41hz Amp9 I am working on).

What I liked about the Sure was it's transparency and separation/soundstage. Instrument placement was precise, and you could tell where the musicians were in the studio or it feels like you are in the front row of the performance. Low noise, very dynamic. Tonally balanced. I think the word 'precise' best describes what I heard. I enjoyed it, but I realized I spent more time listening to the amp, analyzing it, admiring it, but I was not 'pulled in' to the music. The Class D I believe has a softer sound. It's still very transparent, very dynamic, but also relaxed. Very low noise. Keyboards, piano, trumpets/brass sound full and you can hear the micro-tones. I listened to Wish You Were Here last night and the keyboards, I can't describe it, they just sound so different. Every nuance of the notes are there. The soundstage is very deep and wide. You are farther back from the performance and performers, so the music envelops you. Sometimes I get so relaxed listening to this amp I fall asleep! For me it's the opposite of the Sure. Instead of being able to focus on all the individual elements, I am now focusing on the 'whole' of the music itself. The sound is full and... just hard to describe, but it still has all the clarity, transparency and dynamics of the TK2050. I have not really heard quite like it before (but I am still new to high-end amplifiers)

Hope that helps!

Da bonghittu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:46

Tahnk you very much Wushuliu
Oki

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:53

Welcome Wushuliu,
Tahnk you very much for your experience.
I will try different fuses as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Roberto. [/ Quote]

Hi Robert, I do not know how expensive it would be to purchase from them, but [url = http://www.partsconnexion.com/ac_acme.html] Partsconnexion [/ url] has the [url = http:// www . acmeaudiolabs.com / products.htm] climax [/ url] fuse holder for VERY cheap.

- sorry I am having a little difficulty with the link and emoticon functions...

Da Marf il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 9:56

Hi Wushuliu!
thanks for your impressions, i think we only need a comparison between the class d and a tripath 3020, that would be a definitive revealing test, cos of their similar power output... Here in the forum 3020 got such good reviews from our gurus.. so i'm really going to choose between one of these two...In my opinion at the moment these are the two most interesting chips in the market...
I would even say the tk2050, but power output it's slightly less and it requires more modding than the other two...
..now you even say class d is better...am i right?
few questions:
are you using the speakers in your signature to listen to them?
are you using any kind of pre-amp?
what kind of alimentation (hope it's the right word Wink

) are you using for the two cards?
thanks for you answers..

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:21

@Marf ha scritto:Hi Wushuliu!
thanks for your impressions, i think we only need a comparison between the class d and a tripath 3020, that would be a definitive revealing test, cos of their similar power output... Here in the forum 3020 got such good reviews from our gurus.. so i'm really going to choose between one of these two...In my opinion at the moment these are the two most interesting chips in the market...
I would even say the tk2050, but power output it's slightly less and it requires more modding than the other two...
..now you even say class d is better...am i right?
few questions:
are you using the speakers in your signature to listen to them?
are you using any kind of pre-amp?
what kind of alimentation (hope it's the right word ) are you using for the two cards?
thanks for you answers..

Alimentation? Do you mean AC/DC Power supply?

Yes, I would love to hear a 3020 and compare. That would be cool!

No, I don't want to say the Class D is 'better' than the TK2050, just different. I am sure some people will prefer one and not the other. Yes, I am using the MTM towers to listen. They were designed by Jay Kim on the Parts Express Diy and diyaudio forum (my pictures are near the bottom of the page)http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=208908.

I use a WDTV/hard drive with toslink/optical with a Marantz SR4002 as pre-amp. DIY PCOCC 5N cables.http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_occ_cu.html

Da mgiombi il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:32

@Marf ha scritto:
what kind of alimentation (hope it's the right word ) are you using for the two cards?

Oversized power supply:

Spoiler:

Da Wushuliu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:43

Ha! that's funny. Google translates power supply in italian as 'food'. When I first started reading this forum I was confused why everyone was asking 'so what kind of food are you using for your amp' : P

The Class D kit comes with a 300VA Antek Toroidal transformer and 6x3300uf Nichicon caps with ~45v.
The TK2050 I used a 32v 2.2A laptop power supply and sometimes a 24v 5A. I know I should have used something more powerful, but then the TK2050 died (too many modifications!).

I am off to sleep. It's late!!!

Da mgiombi il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:48

@Wushuliu ha scritto:Ha! that's funny. Google translates power supply in italian as 'food'. When I first started reading this forum I was confused why everyone was asking 'so what kind of food are you using for your amp' : P

You know...Italiani...spaghetti, pizza, ... Smile

Da thema2000ie il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:49

@Wushuliu ha scritto:
- sorry I am having a little difficulty with the link and emoticon functions...

Hi

,
if you want to insert an emoticon, you just have to click on one of the emoticons on the right side of the screen.

If you want to insert a link, you just have to click on the "Link" button

, copy the link you want to insert into the upper space you see and click OK.

I hope I've been useful and sorry for my bad english. Embarassed

P.S.: why don't you introduce yourself in the "Presentations" section?

Da madqwerty il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:51

Hi Wushuliu !
welcome here, and many thanks for sharing,
hope you will find well with this forum ! (and GoogleTerribleTranslate Very Happy

)

Da Marf il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 10:52

AHAHAHAAHA!! yeah, power supply, should have thought about it!! Suicide

i was so lazy I didn't look for a translation...and then i got punished!
bella mgiombi!! lol!

btw thanks for your answers... Hello

Da pentrio il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 11:05

@Wushuliu ha scritto:Greetings from California!
I have been reading this forum (with Google Translate) for several weeks now. This is a great forum. When it comes to Class D / T you guys are hardcore! So many great mods!

Anyway, I just want to say that I also have a Class D audio amp (2X250w 4 ohms) and I absolutely love it. Yes, there was a touch of magic to my modified Sure 2X100 TK2050 (what a great amp) but the Class D audio amp is so seductive, robust, and involving. Like going from Kate Beckinsale to Catherine Zeta-Jones! I do not think I will want to try another amp for a while. ( ': soinlove:')
But the reason I am writing today is to say how important it is to use a good cast for this amp. I believe this amp is VERY sensitive and transparent to different components. I used a very cheap glass fuse and fuse holder in the beginning while testing. Then I replaced them with ceramic Acme cryo silver plated and silver plated fuse holder. Very cheap, only $ 20 for both. The difference was astounding in music right away. I have heard changes from fuses before but this was night and day difference. However, I also switched my AC power cord to OCC copper at the same time so this may have helped, but I do not think so. Power cords take longer to change the sound and are more subtle.

So I recommend to everyone to test out different fuses with this amp. You will not be disappointed! : Oki:

Ragazzi mi sbaglio o ci sta consigliando di provare i famosi e controversi fusibili hi-fi grade!!!!!!!

Chi li prova???? Devo dire la verità io sono sempre stato scettico sia nei confronti dei fusibili e anche nei confronti dei cavi........ però per 20 dollari..... quasi quasi mi faccio passare lo sfizio. Cool

Anche perchè Wushuliu mi sembra un tipo piuttosto ferrato in materia diy.

Luciano.

Da pincellone il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 11:10

@pentrio ha scritto:

Chi li prova???? Devo dire la verità io sono sempre stato scettico sia nei confronti dei fusibili e anche nei confronti dei cavi........ però per 20 dollari..... quasi quasi mi faccio passare lo sfizio.
Anche perchè Wushuliu mi sembra un tipo piuttosto ferrato in materia diy.

Luciano.

Eccolo li, il virus dell'audiofilo curioso colpisce ancora... E' con il "non e' vero ma ci credo" che campano tutti quelli che ci propinano queste bufale.

Meditate audiofili, meditate...

Da bonghittu il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 11:44

@pincellone ha scritto:
Meditate audiofili, meditate...

Da roby2k il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 12:15

Dato che cambiando il cavo di alimentazione ho avvertito delle differenze, proverò anche a cambiare il fusibile. Magari con un modello che abbia almeno il corpo in ceramica e non in vetro.

N.B. Io sono il primo a mettere in discussione tutto, ma qundo le cose le provi sulla tua pelle e avverti differenze credo ci sia poco da meditare. Quello che ti resta da fare è valutare se il costo vale il miglioramento.

Da madqwerty il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 12:15

@pentrio ha scritto:
Ragazzi mi sbaglio o ci sta consigliando di provare i famosi e controversi fusibili hi-fi grade!!!!!!!
Devo dire la verità io sono sempre stato scettico sia nei confronti dei fusibili e anche nei confronti dei cavi........
però per 20 dollari..... quasi quasi mi faccio passare lo sfizio.

pecia verde per te per la logica del ragionamento :
- argomento controverso, presupposti "teorici" -> UTILIZZO DEL CONDIZIONALE
- non ho un'idea precisa fornitami dalla personale esperienza pratica -> MI CREO LA PERSONALE ESPERIENZA PRATICA, POI ENUNCIO

bueno! Cool

ti auguro una buona, razionale, lucida e distaccata prova!

facci sapere se procedi..

Da schwantz34 il Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 12:20

@roby2k ha scritto:Dato che cambiando il cavo di alimentazione ho avvertito delle differenze, proverò anche a cambiare il fusibile. Magari con un modello che abbia almeno il corpo in ceramica e non in vetro.

scusa la domanda , ma che benefici puo' apportare un fuso in ceramica rispetto ad uno in vetro ?
tnx

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